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Hoylake to Gretna ~ Local beach info and chat.
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Rossall
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Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:38 pm

I Guess thats Martin nominated for Council Liason Officer for SSBR's then.
Big G
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Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:04 am

Update
All just in case you haven't read your emails Peter has given us the latest

Sad state of affairs as it looks like we are not going to get this sorted as fast as we hoped. However, it does give us a little more time to get together the Rules and Code of Conduct.

I hope to get started on these today.


Hi guys

I have just received the email below. A bit disappointing to say the least.
Since receiving it, I have spoken to Tim Ashton and expressed our regret that they have decided to go a different route to that promised or at least heavily intimated last week. I stressed that we were in fact representing all the major kiting authorities and had their backing. I will attempt to find out who these other groups and bodies are. In the meantime Tim has promised to look into the situation and come back to me. I will let you all know when something comes of it.

On a slightly different tangent, I happened to speak to martin Hogg tonight and he suggested that should this get more complicated and drawn out, we might like to get hold of the accident statistics from the FBC to see just how dangerous this sport really is compared with other activities such as horse riding etc. I think with the freedom of information act, they (FBC) might be obliged to give us this data.

Regards

Peter

email from Paul Norris

From: Norris, Paul [mailto:PaulN@fylde.gov.uk]
Sent: 24 April 2006 16:17
To: 'p.barrett@citygroupuk.com'
Cc: Fazackerley, Susan (Cllr); Ashton, Tim; Renwick, Simon (Cllr); Wilsdon, Andrew
Subject: Kite Ban

Dear Mr Barrett

Further to your recent correspondence with myself, Councillors Tim Ashton, Sue Fazackerly and Simon Renwick I am writing to give you the latest position regarding the use of kites on St Annes beach.

As a matter of priority we are actively seeking an independent organisation to risk assess all activity on our beach. We will make kite flying the first activity to be assessed. You mention the uncertainty as to whether the line was round the pedestrian's neck or otherwise. There was a degree of confusion as to the actual circumstances but this does not alter the fact that a potentially serious incident could have occurred and this was the basis for the temporary ban.

As you can imagine to date we have had many letters and emails asking what our next step is and a number of these offer support as kite groups or organisations. We are currently compiling this information and will arrange for representatives of these groups to speak to the risk assessing body.

In the meantime I consider that it is premature to hold a meeting as the council is unable to provide further information

Please be assured that we are keen to resolve this issue within weeks rather than months.

Yours sincerely

Paul Norris




Paul Norris MCIPR
Cultural Services Manager
Town Hall
Lytham St Annes
FY8 1LW
Tel: 01253 658440
Mob: 07966 890628
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Rossall
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Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:37 am

I was kinda expecting that to be honest and was only talking to phil about it last night, they move slow, very slow. My fear is this will drag on and on through the summer months. We really need to know who the Risk Assessor is going to be, at this time and reading between the lines I guess they have not even bothered to find one.

And I wonder which company they will be spending rate payers money on to do the risk assessment, we already have our own and that has been carefully vetted by 2 HS&E Officers out here who have been on every course known to man.
Big G
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Sat Apr 29, 2006 7:55 pm

All
I don't have everyones email address on my PC here at home so can someone please forward this to Peter B as I'm not sure if he has registered on the forum yet.
Lots of coversations had over the past few days with Alex, Phil, Tony etc so I thought I would put a post up to get your ideas on the way forward. I have a few so this is goig to be along one....
First of all...where are we at?

The council want an independent risk assessment and will not give us a meeting till they have had this done. They have not given us a date for this yet!
First proposal
to get things moving and to remove this obstacle we have our own risk assessment done by ROSPA who according to Alex are the most respected independent risk assess body. Even if the council do pull their fingers out and get the risk assess done quickly the outcome may be biased to their way of thinking. We will then have our own to compare to theirs.
If they do not pull their finger out they can no longer use this as a stalling tactic as again we will have our own to give to them.

Secondly, we give them next week to make progress and start talking to us and if they don't then we take action.

Firstly we could turn up en-masse and go out sailing in a public demo of sticking 2 fingers up at them.. however, I see this as being our trump card and playing it too soon may not do us any favours.

If by close of business next week they have not made progress I propose we spend the followig week organising a 'Silent protest' for the Friday of the followig week. Only problem with friday is most people will be at work and there will not be many members of the public around. However, if we are going to march on the town hall then it needs to be a weekday.

To do this I propose that we start by contacting as many kiters as we can, Alex has all email addresses from the complaints letters, with a view to getting everyone down the beach on a specific day. This will not be limited to kitesurfers, the ban covers all kites so the more the meryier I say..

We print flyers to handout to members of the public to tell them why we are there and a peteition to be signed asking for everyones support.
The more members of the public we can get to sign this with their names and address (preferably locals) the better. We will then set up as many kites as we can muster (Phil C the old Nexus and Wipi Classics could even come out) this should also include any foils or stunt kites to make a bigger spectacle.
Prior to this we can contact as many media peoples as possible. Down the beach we should also get together as many single line kites in the air to draw as much attention as possible.

We can even make the longest kite tunnel ever and maybe get in the Guiness Book of records while were at it... Has anyone got Norris McWhirters cotact number?

We can then either on the same day or a day/week later march on the townhall as is our democratic right....(Alex to complete risk assessment)

Idea being, we have been told not to fly kites on the beaches but 50 kiters walking through the centre of town with inflated kites to the townhall should cause a few problems for them...
We then end at the town hall to present our petition and chain someone to the railings on hunger strike. I vote for Phil C as he has a thing for chains...


If this doens't work then boll@x to them I'm going kiting....

All this will take time to organise and will only work if properly organised and enough people turn up to make a suitable spectacle and get enough signatures on a petition.

Thoughts please?????
Big G
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Sat Apr 29, 2006 11:10 pm

before you read this please consider that it is 22.53 on a Saturday night and that my wife is away for the weekend and that I have been listening to Bob Dylan for an hour....

just come off phone to Martin for the hour before that and had a good chat and he is definately on board with the ideas I have put forward and the way forward that we are thinking. His absenteeism from this dialogue has been due to not wishing to be misinterpreted.

One thing that we were especially in agreemet on is where we have failed in the past and possibly a result of what has lead us to where we are now.
Martin considers himself a foot soldier as do I and although the saying goes 'too many chiefs and not enough indians or too many chefs ruin the broth' I think we have faltered for the opposite reason. We are all willing to put in the work and put forward our 2 penneth but do not possess the leadership qualities to put plans into action.

However, Martin pointed out that a leader seems to have appeared out of all this and although we couldn't remember the correct analogy "out of chaos come calm, a drawer full of spoons when all you need is a knife"
whatever it is I am sure he will correct us.. Anyway Peter seems to be the one driving this forward and doing so with a passion that in some ways makes me feel guilty and embarrassed that we have not done this sooner as we surely have more to lose than the wrath of an upset teenager..


so not sure to what end I am heading except for a sore head in the morning but at the end of all this I would like to buy Peter a drink as long as it's not Caffreys just to say thanks for all is hard work....
muppetdude

Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:28 am

well put graham 8)

its an excellent opportunity for us to create new bridges to many different "partners" in the process - that includes organisations, councillors and individuals...........and general beach users

you all know me guys as honest person and i will speak my mind face to face and i hope you know my intentions are for the good of all - no factions no splits - that is important for the good health of any club

seeing a mate land his first backloop the other day - thats what matters and this is all about getting our passport back to keep that buzz goin for us all including new faces entering our wonderful sport

i wear my heart on my sleeve - im n ot s ure if that is a s trength / w eakness but a fter 40 years on this planet i know im a good foot soldier ...........

now then wheres my pea shooter :wink:

fleetwood tomorrow nw 18 mph morning s ession chill out afternoon at alex shop spread the good karma

have a mint sunday
Tony
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Sun Apr 30, 2006 12:09 pm

A bit off topic...
Martin, check that 14 mtr Caution of mine in your car if you are at Fleetwood o0n Monday

Back on topic...

Read the e-mail Ali' dad has sent out, reads very well, will be interesting to see what the outcome is

T
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sshorehg
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Mon May 01, 2006 12:35 am

good karma is here in this thread mart ,and i agree as a foot soldier , but why are we bowing down to an unprofessional outfit like fbc ,they cannot even be arsed to asign a workforce of joiners / builders to put up a sign anywhere on the fylde coast for 5-6 miles of coast .

paul mc said to me that a notice board was to be put up at north beach car park soon (good idea i said ) , in his words " its hard to put the right forces together and nothing ever gets moving within our own department ".


so i ask myself why should i follow the rules laid down by a council that just blindly gives up a responsibilty to its constituants by banning us because it mearly cannot find the manpower and resources for a sign or research , and just pleads ignorant .

if it was'nt for the barrage of pressure FBC have received locally and nationally then , there would be no talks (PENDING ,mmmm) and no full signage ,they are completely innept ,

remember back to the wheel ban there was no signs from august till december and responsible buggiers and landboarders just stayed away thru respect and the severity of the press and the accident .

lest not forget nobody died and mrs v steele of lytham was shook up whist walking her pack of several dogs , but she wishes to see our beautiful beach used by all users , and is deeply sadenned by the kneejerk reaction by the councill ,and wishes it to remain , but safer measures in place .

Is that not what we want also ??? ,but can we work toward that ??? No


so the question is " why are pussyfooting around fbc like are some gods " they do not want to manage anything on their forshore ,because they dont have the funds or manpower , so its easier to eliminate the risks from their beach ,,,

lets let them know were still here on a bank holiday monday by riding close to them on the blackpool borough council and make paul mc aware we know our rights in the politically correct way by launching from bbc land and landing on bbc land , and it will only do one thing this weekend, which is let the bosses know that this weeks talks that did'nt go ahead ,are felt strongly amongst us ...
muppetdude

Mon May 01, 2006 7:31 am

phil

you put it together better than u did on the phone! :lol: - all that living with madandy is making you throw f words every other word :wink:

what you have stated i agree 100% with but wudnt that be an arguement to be thrown in the face of a councillor - far better on paper

any point of contact detail shud be monitored and records kept for us and copies sent to them - if they receive notices they have to act - evidence shud be collated that we are pushing them and yet they are failing to respond................theyd be snookered if that came out in a court room!

if they fail to act having been advised then they become accountable - this aspect came out chatting to graham

"an eye for an eye and the whole world will soon become blind"

mart

nw arriving = rossall point - have a nice day where ever the wind takes you
muppetdude

Mon May 01, 2006 8:05 pm

http://www.fylde.gov.uk/ccm/navigation/ ... or-search/

contact details if anyone fancies piling the pressure on ?
Big G
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Tue May 09, 2006 12:44 pm

all
getting a few questions asking what the latest is.
does anyone knwo the details of the meeting with the council next week?
Big G
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Thu May 11, 2006 1:57 pm

mail from Paul Norris to Mr Smith

Dear Mr Smith

Although the council is not intending to regulate activities on the water ther is still a risk to pedestrians at the waters edge from kites surfers even though the surfer is on the water. They are, therefore, covered by the temporary ban.

As landowners the council has the power to determine who is allowed on its land. You would need to cross the land to get to the water. If you are operating without the landowners permission, and are involved in an accident, I suspect your insurance company would not be particularly willing to settle the claim.

Please be assured that the council is not looking for a permanent ban and will be working with kiters to ensure that adequate and reasonable measures can be introduced as soon as possible

Paul Norris MCIPR
Cultural Services Manager
Town Hall
Lytham St Annes
FY8 1LW
Tony
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Thu May 11, 2006 2:22 pm

Is the meeting going to happen next week?

So if you launch north of the slipway and ride south of it, staying a minimum of 30 mtrs from the waters edge you don't need to cross the land owned by Fylde :wink:

T
Big G
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Thu May 11, 2006 7:46 pm

thats right tone and on a southerly you wouldn't have a problem but if people start doing this on westerlies or northerlies they will end up on the Fylde beach for sure.
The meeting is definately going ahead but not heard any details from Peter yet.
If the outcome is not favourable I say we start protesting asap...
We have respected the ban and given them long enough to start sortig it out so if they can't give us a reasonable time frame we should take action.

I think one thing is for sure, the crowds will have thinned a bit when/if they give us access again. Ainsdale have run out of rash vests and are ordering more for new members and everyone is asking for other spots to fly at..
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Rossall
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Tue May 16, 2006 9:37 am

wonder what the news will be today ?????
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