Irresponsible Kitesurf Shops

Shoot the breeze and stay in the loop with the unhinged and unhooked word on the street.
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waverider
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Location: Big-Blue-Beach, Newgale, Pembrokeshire.

Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:54 am

My 15 pulls like an 18 and I fall to sleep whilst it's turning.
savo
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:45 pm

Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:53 pm

joking aside ...if this women smashes herself or worse someone on the beech who has nothing to do with kiting it could end in kiting being band at this spot ,
it does matter what gear was like years gone by this women had read the gunff and stumped up the money for new gear not some death machine off e bay for 5 quid , the shop should hang there head theres people outside the sport that do there best to get bands in place without thing like this to aid them :roll:
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thetrash
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Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:08 am
Location: east

Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:11 pm

If this woman smashes someone else and gets it banned its still her fault. The shop might have sold her an unsuitable kite but its her ultimate responsibility to be safe around others. Suitable kites still hurt as much as unsuitable ones when they hit you.
Too Much Wind
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Location: south coast uk

Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:53 pm

Would that be
Beach, banned and gumpf by any chance savo?

TMW
Safety_Crab
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Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:02 pm

savo wrote:joking aside ...if this women smashes herself or worse someone on the beech who has nothing to do with kiting it could end in kiting being band at this spot ,
it does matter what gear was like years gone by this women had read the gunff and stumped up the money for new gear not some death machine off e bay for 5 quid , the shop should hang there head theres people outside the sport that do there best to get bands in place without thing like this to aid them :roll:
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Well sayd savo
Andy C
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:50 pm

Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:30 pm

The interesting point this raises for me is the fact that bridled kites with a lot of depower at the bar are not necessarily that safe. I was lofted a few years back whilst bombing along in flat water - my fins hit a sandbar just below the water which I couldn't see, I flipped over and didn't let go of the bar quick enough, before I knew it with no feeling at all through the bar the kite powered, lofted me up and I ended up smashing into the sand with my arm underneath me. The point being that the kite being a bridled one simply accidentally pulling on the bar lofted me. I now use C-kites, where jumping requires much more active redirection of the kite, and has better feel through the bar - I'm pretty sure this would not have happened had I been flying what I do now. This was a Naish Boxer SLE though, I'm sure bridled kites have moved on since then. I still don't think they are safer than a good modern 5 line C kite though, even for learning.
southseasailor
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Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:40 am

Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:20 pm

Well, reading the comments then yes, the Lady in question should know all the hazards of kiting. She might have a sensible kite and still get into big trouble in all manner of ways; of which don't need listing for the more experienced amongst us.

I wonder about the short courses that kite schools do. While they might be sufficient for the more able and talented, wouldn't it be wiser to make absolutely sure that a learner really knows what they are doing? OR, why not start a scheme where newbies can be taken under someones wing, say for a few sessions. I suspect it would need to be voluntary, but without stepping on the toes of kite schools that rely on income from courses. Sticky subject I know, but surely an agreement can be reached?

Just a thought.
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kite-uk
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Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:06 pm

I have no idea if it was the same kite shop that said my kite was suitable when infact it later transpired it wasn't. Shame if it was as its put a dim light on their haylow in my view. Now I know
For my self about the kite I bought their info was wrong in my case. Just means as a customer you think twice about going there again. Difficult I guess as we where not there in the shop at the time.
thetrash
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Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:08 am
Location: east

Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:39 pm

southseasailor wrote: I wonder about the short courses that kite schools do. While they might be sufficient for the more able and talented, wouldn't it be wiser to make absolutely sure that a learner really knows what they are doing? OR, why not start a scheme where newbies can be taken under someones wing, say for a few sessions. I suspect it would need to be voluntary, but without stepping on the toes of kite schools that rely on income from courses. Sticky subject I know, but surely an agreement can be reached?

Just a thought.
Who gets the blame when something goes wrong?

A better way would be for schools to sell prospective learners a 3-4m blade and tell them to learn to fly it on land and come back in a couple of months. Learning good kite skills before getting in the water would make it much better for everyone involved.
eazyrider
Posts: 76
Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 2:14 pm

Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:45 pm

Give them a 3-4m blade! Will this be flown on the beach to get kiting band there or on a local field where it gets banned? By an inexperienced kiter?

As an instructor, most students that have completed a 3 day course are much safer than somebody who's got a few months experience as the knowledge is still fresh in their heads rather than getting complacent... Most kiters I've scraped off the beach have been flying a while but then haven't been out on a regular basis so get complacent and to keen to put up a kite that's the wrong size for the conditions.

This was about a shop selling a beginner the wrong kite, she did all the right things and asked someone with from what I can tell, enough experience to offer some wise words and if the same size and colour kite was on the shops website then she took the advice that was given rather than be an irresponsible kiter.
thetrash
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Location: east

Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:04 am

eazyrider wrote:Give them a 3-4m blade! Will this be flown on the beach to get kiting band there or on a local field where it gets banned? By an inexperienced kiter?

As an instructor, most students that have completed a 3 day course are much safer than somebody who's got a few months experience as the knowledge is still fresh in their heads rather than getting complacent... Most kiters I've scraped off the beach have been flying a while but then haven't been out on a regular basis so get complacent and to keen to put up a kite that's the wrong size for the conditions.
Yes, exactly that. I've yet to hear about all those beaches where kiting gets banned because of incidents with blade flyers!
When conditions that a novice is most likely to get spanked is when joe public is not likely to be present. And getting a good beating by a power kite is just what's needed by people learning to respect what can be a dangerous sport. Me and a group of friends learnt on a 4.9 blade back in 2001, we soon knew what we could and couldn't do with a kite, no one got hurt(apart from ourselves!)
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North_Wind
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Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:35 am

I am not sure I agree with the premise of this thread.

What results in people getting injured or worse kiting is mistakes, going out in too strong/gusty wind, going out in unsuitable locations, lack of kite-flying skills, not being able to swim well enough etc.

Bow kites give the illusion of being safer. I don't think they are safer.

I continue to believe that the best way to learn kitesurfing is extensive flying with a foil followed by supervised tuition on a high / highish aspect kite with good bar feedback.

From the North range at least, if I was going to teach someone, i would rig up my Vegas rather than my Evo.

BA
Andy C
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Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:01 am

That was exactly my point too, although it got ignored..!
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JGTR
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Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:23 pm

Andy C wrote:That was exactly my point too, although it got ignored..!
This thread is not about the dangers of kiting, we all agree that any kite can be dangerous whether beginner or experienced kiter. This is about kite shops allegedly selling inappropriate gear - given the choice a beginner should be sold suitable kite. When you break down kitesurfing into the different factors that affect risk then appropriate kite choice is just one component but it is the main component that a kite shop has pretty much sole responsibility/duty of care for so there really isn't an excuse for them not to fulfill their responsibility.
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North_Wind
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Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:25 pm

@JGTR

The point I am making, and I think Andy C is making, is that a C kite is not more or less appropriate than a bow.

Indeed I think bows are more dangerous than C kites because they give an illusion of safety when they are not. At least with C kites it is immediately obvious that there is a force of nature to be controlled.

What can be irresponsible is selling any powerful kite to someone who has not had lessons or is inexperienced and who announces an intention to "teach themself" on a beach.

BA
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