The twitchers are at it again!

Shoot the breeze and stay in the loop with the unhinged and unhooked word on the street.
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Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:59 pm

Once BT pulled their fingers out and got the www running again, this afternoon, an interesting message came through, see below.....
Message sent to you follows

We have big Problems

our Politicians tells referring to studies that english studies Shows that
all seabirds are dieing because of Kitesurfing.

On the 10 of february in Kiel they will go to close all german Kitesurfing
spots relating to af British research ... N-0313.pdf

Kitesurfing Shall not be allowed longer in all over Germany, Austria and
Switzerland and perhaps Denmark to

regarding the link enclosed.

Are their still Bird alive in GB?

Or ist ist true that they alle died after seeing a Kitesurfer?

It is no Joke - although it seems so - But all our politician want to stop
Kitesurfing here in europe forever ....

Please Contact us very fast - Martin MotZek:
and te CEO "Love it Like a" Moritz Brameier <>


Best Regards martin
I had a quick read through the pdf file in the link and we get a mention......
Bait digging caused the most disturbance events, although dog walkers and kite surfers caused a greater mean response.

There's a lot of reading in there! The date is 2012, so a few years old now, so does anybody know anything else about this and the potential implications elsewhere as highlighted by Martin?

Too Much Wind
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Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:02 am

This is a very similar document to one done in poole harbour. Off the back of which now kitesurfing is banned in effectively the southern half of the harbour.
Why are birds so important? Surely there better things for people to worry about?

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Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:31 am

From the use of the English language used in the email I thought he was going to ask for you bank details at the end.
Site Admin
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Wed Feb 03, 2016 8:04 am

PeaBody wrote:From the use of the English language used in the email I thought he was going to ask for you bank details at the end.
Yeah, I was waiting for that, but then, I communicate with a lot of poeple from Europe and elsewhere in work, so I'm used to that sort of English!

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Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:42 am

So from a quick scan it looks as though 84.3% of all bird disturbances were caused by dog walkers with dogs off lead, bait diggers and walkers.

Of the small percentage of appearances by kitesurfers (13.4% of the total), around 35% of cases resulted in no reaction at all and in over 50% of cases the birds didn't even take off (Fig. 3). From the same table you can see that birdwatchers generated the same percentage as kitesurfers of responses of 'Alert' or more plus boats always got a response but aren't mentioned in the abstract or in the discussion section.

There's also a vague admission that some of the kitesurfers (about 10% from Table 9) and bait diggers also had dogs, so the activities themselves weren't causing all of the disturbances.

I'd be very surprised if this was admissible as a detailed enough study with which to ban kitesurfing in a different country. It was some university work of a student which doesn't even appear to be her degree dissertation for either her BSc or MSc.
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Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:52 pm

I started to have a look at this, but it's a right can of worms.. Just from a quick bit of digging online:

In 2009, Teesmouth and Cleveland Coast EMS spring management scheme document includes assessing impact on birds from recreational activites. Concludes that it may cause disturbance to birds, but no research exists connecting bird disturbance to power kite activities (page 38): ... e-site.pdf

In 2011/2012, Katherine Simpson of Natural England / EMS conducted a survey into bird disturbance: ... t-2012.pdf

Page 75 shows the survey form used had no checkbox for Kitesurfing (Page 75) only Windsurfing
Page 83 indicates windsurfing represented less than 5% of the total potential disturbance activities occurring (Dog walking 32%, Walking 55%)

Finally, the June 2012 Tees/Cleveland newsletter has a section on recreational disturbance project. It also states that Rachel Linaker was interpreting the data from previous surveys (ie likely the one from Katherine) rather than conducting a full study herself. ... letter.pdf

I would be very surprised that any authority would take this seriously enough to consider banning kitesurfing or windsurfing. To come to the conclusion that kitesurfing is detrimental to birds from this is absurd.

just my two-penneth..
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Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:55 pm

I agree with all the points made by joe_mgh above.
Not long ago I was having a related discussion with Natural England on birds and kitesurfing at Pegwell Bay, a Site of Special Scientific Interest. ... an#p361217

The outcome of which was that they stated that they were happy to maintain the original voluntary zoning agreement (worked on by Rou Chater) and also told me that they would be sure to include the BKSA as stakeholder in any future developments.

In the thread John M also pointed out how successful Brancaster, also on an SSSI including RSPB reserve Tichwell, had been in its zoning agreement.

My feeling is that the BKSA who list 'accessability' and 'environmental impact' as part of their remit should by now have kept a record of kitesurfer/bird studies and zoning agreements and should be approached on the matter.
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Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:30 am

I dealt with a lot of this and can say there is inconclusive proof, most surveys have big holes in them ask Rou Chater who attended the pegwell bay meeting

Rich Gowers
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Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:04 pm

I thank God for living in my part of the world, and feel sorrow for the crap you have to go through. Total opposite here, the kiter being rare enough to be photographed on a regular basis :)
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Sat Feb 20, 2016 8:31 am

I blame the mirgrants, coming up here in the summer, takin our kitesurfing spots...
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Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:53 pm

Love all this rubbish, personally I don't see what difference any kind of "ban" makes if it's not enforceable. It's like the Poole Harbour permit thingy, don't think anyone cares now.
sir Earth
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Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:53 pm

paulie_amoose wrote:I blame the mirgrants, coming up here in the summer, takin our kitesurfing spots...
No, #blame Corbyn
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Sat Sep 03, 2016 12:15 am

Apologies for bumping a post that isn't all that active - i just noticed that the Tees Coast study was mentioned here. Funnily enough I am 'the MSc student' who conducted the study.. is there anything I can assist with? I'd just like to point out that the data was collected after Katherine's study, mine was a follow on bit of work to establish some baseline data. I don't know what has since been done mind.. I'm no longer in touch with the EMS group.
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Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:26 pm

Well that's interesting, the report I read (some years ago) seemed to pull massive and wide ranging conclusions from very poor data. This was then (somehow) presented as scientific fact which is all a bit bizarre. I assumed that this paper had been buried may years ago but it still seems to hold some sway.
Like I say I can't remember exactly but I remember laughing at the results as the summaries drawn could not be made from the data presented, yet present it they did.
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